An unpretentious “bar conversation” with influencers, celebrities, possible presidential candidates and politicians of all ideological hues. This is the proposal of the podcast with more than 177 million views – only on the main YouTube channel -, which is daily among the ten most listened to by Spotify in Brazil. In October 2018, the names of Igor Coelho, from 36 years old, and Bruno from São Paulo Aiub, 22 years old, were known only by the public connected to the universe of video games. The debut video, still available on the channel, features Igor and Monark – the nickname by which Aiub has been known since the days of gameplays – between glasses of beer, talking at a small table. Three years later, the Flow Podcast revolutionized a market that, until just before the pandemic, was in its infancy in the country. Today, its relevance goes beyond the huge numbers: episodes frequently appear among the most talked about topics on Twitter – the trending topics -, fomenting debates, controversies and, of course, cancellations.
“Everyone told us it was going to go wrong”, revealed Igor, during the interview given by the duo to Gazeta do Povo, via video call. The two met in a hamburger shop in Curitiba through a mutual friend and, from a period of failure, the idea of creating a new business was born, in which director Gianluca Eugenio and producer Sérgio Coelho also participate. It took two years and investments for the project to succeed. “We spent 20, 22 a thousand reais per month only to air the podcast. We went to receive our first salary in the middle of 2020”, he says.
Although it is difficult to specify when, exactly, the Flow from being another gamble amidst the endless crop of podcasts that have emerged in recent years to become a phenomenon, the first weeks of the pandemic marked the project’s history. Recorded on the day 20 of March, episode 177, with participation do streamer Alexandre Borba Chiqueta – o Gaules -, winner of the Best Streamer and Best Personality awards at eSports Brasil, is absolute champion of reproductions and the “inflection point” of Flow. In three hours of conversation, the former Counter Strike player chronicled his difficult childhood, his struggle with depression and his return to stardom, bringing the cast and production to tears. “We already had a nice audience, but Gaules validated our point. It’s the culmination of what the format can deliver: an emotional human experience, a conversation in which you learn a lot”, recalls Monark.
Freedom of expression and diversity of ideas
Although relaxation is the order of the house, it is not just easy subjects – and guests – the schedule is made. The list of politicians received by the pair is extensive and spans all ideological spectrums. To be just among the most listened to, figures such as Eduardo Bolsonaro (PSL), Ciro Gomes (PDT), João Doria (PSDB), Fernando Haddad (PT), Eduardo Leite (PSDB), Cabo Daciolo (Avante) have already been present at Flow studios. ), Guilherme Boulos (PSOL), João Amoedo (Novo) and Marcelo Freixo (PTB), in addition to former members of the Bolsonaro government and deputies from various parties. The doors open to divergence yielded all sorts of labels: “Some people call us leftists and “pocket minions”, explains Igor.
More than the variety of guests received, it was the non-negotiable defense of freedom of expression, committed mainly by Monark, who led the duo to face the toughest wave of “cancellations”: last October, Flow lost two relevant sponsors – among them, Ifood – because of one tweet in which youtuber questioned whether holding a racist opinion could be considered a crime. The announcement of the breach of contract was followed by a company note accusing Monark of racism and a flurry of swearing on the internet, to which the presenters reacted forcefully (“I became a postdoctoral fellow in this cancellation business”, joked the presenter).
In a week, a joint note from Flow and Ifood calmed down feelings. “Both companies defend, in building a fairer and less unequal society, the power and importance of dialogue. We agree that communication on both sides failed in this objective. (…) The company identified that it could have been clearer in his communication; Monark, in turn, categorically stated that he does not support racism, nor any type of discrimination based on his appearance, belief or his own vision as an individual”, says the text.
ÀGazeta do Povo, the presenter clarified his indignation with the episode. “If the argument was ‘I don’t want to get involved in controversy’, perfect, they have every right. What they cannot call me a racist,” explains Monark. The week elapsed between the posting and the release of the note was one of apprehension. “We were afraid that the departure of Ifood would have a ripple effect and that no one would want to join Flow anymore. The opposite happened: after we aggressively positioned ourselves , refuting what was being imposed, the public supported us. People are fed up with these sealing and canceling people, and I think companies felt that way. Many that were afraid to close sponsorship went ahead. There was a feeling of solidity for the brand”, says youtuber. “The no ‘snap’ aspect was important. Nobody here took it. People said to ‘let the dust settle’ and our stance was the opposite, because what happened was unfair. I was willing to go into the fight anyway”, agrees Igor.
In the eye of the virtual hurricane of cancellation, Flow had the energetic defense of one of its most controversial guests: journalist Glenn Greenwald. Interviewed in late October, just before the mess with Ifood, the journalist told the story about the experience and justified the duo’s defense.
“Until then, I only knew that part of the left hates Flow. They said the Monark is ignorant, as they describe everyone who is not on the left. I found the two of them not only aren’t dumb, they’re quite smart, they just aren’t obsessed with the details of politics. They asked me interesting questions and listened carefully, so I was able to understand why they are so popular: People trust that they are trying to understand an argument without being obligated to please a party or an ideological field. It was clear to me that their popularity goes back to Joe Rogan’s spectacular podcast”, defends Greenwald, who returned to Flow last Monday (20), accompanied by her husband, David Miranda, federal deputy for the PSOL.
The reference to The Joe Rogan Experience podcast is not a mere coincidence. With a 177 million dollar contract with Spotify, the former American comedian is the declared inspiration of the Brazilian duo: figures of Elon’s caliber have already passed through Rogan’s program Musk, Sam Harris, Jordan Peterson, Dave Chapelle, Mike Tyson and Neil DeGrasse Tyson – plus the entire elite of conservative and progressive influencers “cancelled” by digital guerrillas, from Peter Boghossian to Abigail Shrier. Having questioned the effectiveness of the vaccines and taking a few months to join the campaign, Rogan started to be portrayed by the American press as “antivax” and “extreme-right”, even after admitting that he was immunized. In practice, it did little good: for more than a decade, the program has been absolute audience champion.
“If you ask the left what they think of Joe Rogan, they will say it is dumb and a right-wing extremist. It turns out that Rogan supported Bernie Sanders in the election of 2020 and was canceled simply for not agreeing with all progressive dogma. He says things that he doesn’t like, but he reaches thousands of people and he’s constantly claiming that he’s not the enemy,” says Greenwald, who was also with Rogan on two occasions. “I think it’s the same with Igor and Monark. If you’re not interested in just showing moral superiority, you need to talk. This part of the left is self-destructive”, says the journalist who, contrary to the majority currents on the left, defends freedom of expression for “seeing the dangerous precedent” of giving the State control over what is said.
The argument is shared by Flow presenters. “I wouldn’t want anyone to be racist, for example. But you are not going to erase that reality through a law. You won’t end prejudice, and you’ll even create a tool that gives the powerful the ability to curtail public discourse and punish those with whom they don’t agree”, defends Monark. “But then, if I say a , if I’m actually a racist or discriminate against someone, society has the right to punish me, not wanting to do business with me or anything,” adds Igor.
It is ironic that, in the same week that the contract with Ifood was broken, the Flow studios, which today house recordings of nine different podcasts and, soon, should move to one space in São Paulo, have publicized a project that celebrates, precisely, the diversity of ideas. Presented by writer and screenwriter Ale Santos, activist for the anti-racist cause, and philosophy professor Paulo Cruz, columnist for Gazeta do Povo, Noir Podcast was launched with the proposal to demonstrate how differences can enrich the debate. Soon, a new podcast aimed at the audience of Capão Redondo, in Campo Limpo, led by community residents, will be announced by the group. Two other projects are presented by women – Vênus Podcast, with comedian Criss Paiva and youtuber Yasmin Yassine, and Prosa Guiada, presented by camgirl Emme White -, in addition to channels about science, sports and entrepreneurship.
Flow’s plans for next year include interviews with presidential candidates and agenda negotiations are already underway, including poll leaders: o President Jair Bolsonaro and former President Lula. Regarding guests for the podcast, however, Monark and Igor already have their votes well defined: respectively, Elon Musk and Adriano Imperador. At a time when subservience to the madness of the masses in eternal rituals of atonement seems to be synonymous with success, it is heartening to see a truly diverse project fall into the hearts of those who matter: flesh-and-blood people willing to engage in good fashion conversations “bar table”. May many years of “cancellations” come.
