Still on Tuesday (23), while President Jair Bolsonaro’s interview with Jornal Nacional was fresh in my memory, I found myself imagining what Lula’s interview with the news would be like – and with the same interviewers. And I immediately thought that, at that moment, someone was making very important decisions about the tone of the interview with the ex-con. Starting with the use or not of this term (spoiler: they won’t use it).
The day went by normally. A lot of work, thank God. Catota getting ready for her. Woman scolding me for something I did wrong (sorry!). Ideas piling up in my notebook. Good laughs with friends. And in the midst of it all, she, the pervasive and somewhat uncomfortable imagination. Would William Bonner and Renata Vasconcellos be courteous and generous to Lula? Or would they be arrogant and aggressive? Would there be sarcastic smiles or would there be tears? Would Lula take the water or would he accept what was served to him?
Then I realized something that may be obvious to the reader. But I’m really distracted. Hence the surprise to find that, in the case of Lula’s interview with Jornal Nacional, the interviewers had become more important than the interviewee. And look, we’re talking about a former president who held office for eight years, survived the Mensalão trial intact, elected his successor and spent 600 days in prison. In a luxury chain, go there. But still stuck. For corruption and money laundering. What was at stake was not the position of the candidate, but that of the interviewers in front of him.
Let’s be honest: no one is interested in what Lula has to say. If he has anything to say. Anyone who is a PT is a PT even underwater. Who is not, will hardly become by the spell of lulista rhetoric. People are only interested in analyzing the posture of William Bonner and Renata Vasconcellos. That I insist on writing with the double consonant, but that maybe it’s with a single “l”. Let me see here. Phew.
Poc, poc, poc, poc, poc. The popcorn is ready. Whether I’ll be able to watch the interview, write and eat at the same time, I don’t know. Anyway, I apologize in advance for any errors. Anything, you already know: it was the popcorn’s fault.
How was the interview
Lula looks nervous. She rubs her hands together as Bonner explains the interview. Renata is smiling. She wouldn’t say nice. The interview begins by talking about corruption. “So you don’t owe justice anything,” says Bonner. The question goes on, full of reservations. Lula looks up from below. “How are these scandals not going to be repeated?” he asks. Lula is grateful for the opportunity to speak on the subject.
“It was in my government that we created…”, begins Lula, giving rise to a curious narrative: that he was responsible by the prison itself. No interruption. No confrontation. Lula’s hoarse voice startles Catota. I lie, it was a mosquito that attracted her attention. Lula points out the political character of Lava Jato and attacks Sergio Moro. No interruption. No interruptions yet. No interruptions.
Listening to the eyes of the Brazilian people, Lula promises to fight corruption. Lula, who was imprisoned for almost 600 days. Squid. Politely, Bonner insists on the topic of corruption. “How can you ensure that corruption will not occur?” insists Bonner. Strange insistence. Lula, in turn, insists on the idea that he was responsible for the prison itself. Without it, corruption would run rampant. Imagine!
“I could issue a decree of one hundred years. Of secrecy. You know, what is in fashion now”, says a Lula who seems lost in the argument. Will rhetoric and “charisma” be able to seduce the viewer? William Bonner takes the lead again. Calmly, with that condescending but not sarcastic tone, he insists on corruption and asks Lula for a confession that the PT was involved in corruption. Lula criticizes the plea bargains. She quibbles. He doesn’t recognize anything.
Bonner hints at an interruption and even a smirk. Then Lula criticizes Lava Jato and blames the operation for unemployment, disinvestment and even a drop in revenue. I can’t believe I’m hearing this. Lula is blaming Lava Jato for a contractor’s bankruptcy. I do not believe this. Bonner finally gives the floor to Renata Vasconcellos and “defends” Lava Jato.
A Renata Vasconcellos with no trace of blood in her eyes asks Lula about… the PGR’s triple list. I can imagine the people watching this. While Lula can answer anything, I have time to reflect on the communication strategy of this journalism. Xi, now Renata Vasconcellos raised the ball for Lula to talk about the relationship between the attorney general and Bolsonaro. Lula doesn’t take the hint.
“Are you going to keep a mystery about such a fundamental subject?”, insists Renata Vasconcellos. So fundamental? Is triple list so fundamental? The question extends. Another ball raised by Renata Vasconcellos: intervention in the Federal Police. I can’t believe what I’m seeing – again. Lula does not take advantage of it again and evokes his brother’s arrest. He says he’s wronged. Talk about guaranteeing democracy. It is not interrupted.
“I want to be better than I was”, says Lula. Good slogan. Praise Alckmin. I can’t believe what I’m seeing – for the third time. Bonner then decides to talk about something that speaks to the people: the pocket. Pessimistic, Bonner asks how Lula intends to recover the economy. The numbers show the opposite, I think. Lula compares the Brazil of 2002 to the Brazil of twenty years later. She cites several numbers that will make the check agencies happy. Lula claims to be responsible for reducing inflation in Brazil. The interviewers let Lula speak freely. “Credibility, predictability, stability”, says Lula. Another slogan. That he has plenty of time to explain. Without any interruption from the interviewers.
Bonner continues talking about the economy. The Dilma disaster is mentioned. The agenda is: interventionism in the economy. But Bonner doesn’t explain this to Homer Simpson. “Saturday I was with Dilma…”, says Lula, telling an anecdote so as not to criticize Dilma Rousseff. He almost cries when praising the former president. He is praising the Dilma government. I don’t believe it IV. Lula blames Eduardo Cunha and Aécio Neves for Dilma’s economic disaster.
“Will your government be different from Dilma’s?” asks Bonner. Good question. Squidwardly. He says he will rule as he sees fit. He cites another slogan. He says his obsession “is because it’s possible to get this country back.” Small talk older than walking forward. Old politics. Bonner cites numbers to attest to the bankruptcy of Brazil under Dilma’s government.
“If there’s one thing I know how to do, it’s take care of the people”, says Lula. Again, without being asked, he invokes Alckmin’s name, extolling his capacity for dialogue. Renata Vasconcellos insists on subjects that are absolutely uninteresting to the viewer: Centrão. To compensate, she mentions Mensalão. “Is the Mensalão more serious than the ‘secret budget’?” asks Lula. Renata doesn’t answer the obvious answer: of course it is! Lula, then, defends the Centrão. Good opportunity for Renata to ask if Lula, then, agrees with Bolsonaro. But there is no interruption.
Lula defends the free press. I can’t believe what I’m hearing – I don’t get tired of saying it. Lula attacks corruption again. All that remains is to say Hunter of Maharajas. Ah, now Renata says that there is no way to compare Mensalão to the “secret budget”. Ufa. Lula says Bolsonaro is hostage to the National Congress. “Bolsonaro looks like a court jester,” she says. Then Lula begins to teach how Bolsonaro should relate to Congress. Lula speaks in LDO. Does the viewer remember what LDO is? Do I remember?
Lula laughs. She tries to use all her power of seduction. Nobody interrupts him. Lula looks directly at the camera. “Don’t put grudges in the urn,” she says. No, he is not asking for forgiveness. Bonner asks a long question about Alckmin’s harassment by PT members. “We are not living in the same world. I am even jealous of Alckmin”, says Lula. I’ve never seen a candidate praise the vice so much. But my memory is not the best, I admit.
“People have to go back to eating a barbecue and drinking a beer”, says Lula. Another slogan. Bonner and Renata leave. How are viewers seeing this? I wonder. Bonner talks about the aggressiveness of PT militancy. “Happy was Brazil when the polarization was between PT and PSDB”, says Lula. Is it the theater of scissors that speaks? “Military is militancy”, says Lula. Lula starts commenting on football, as if she were at the bar table. And she cynically defends peace in politics.
Bonner is very good at talking about “us versus them”. Lula once again compares politics to football. And then she defends polarization. As long as it’s between equals, right, Lula?, I think. Lula then criticizes the Chinese and Cuban regime. I can’t believe what I’m hearing – I’ve lost count. “I get along very well with the PSDB,” he says, again opening the scissors theater wide. Lula mentions Paulo Freire. I didn’t take Engov. Lula talks about fascism and the far right. He is not confronted because of it.
Renata Vasconcellos asks a good question, but in a tone that you probably thought was too calm. And she mentions the conflict between the MST and agribusiness. Lula starts praising himself. And she says that his problem with agribusiness is the PT’s environmental agenda. I believe not, &c. Lula defends the MST. Lula misses a great opportunity to remain silent and begins to attack agribusiness. “What will be the role of the MST in your government?”, asks Renata. Lula does not respond and praises the MST. Largest producer of organic rice in Brazil. Needless to say, the production is derisory. Lula criticizes weapons in the countryside.
International politics, announces Bonner. Good question about leftist dictatorships and Lula’s support. “We need to respect people’s self-determination,” he says. Lula does not answer Bonner’s question. Bonner, Lula didn’t respond! Bonner, Lula did not respond. Did not answer. Time runs out. “I don’t like the word ‘govern’; I like the word ‘take care'”, says Lula, repeating yet another slogan. Now I will publish the text and sleep. Goodnight.